Episode Transcript
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Cece Chow is welcoming me into her indoor micro garden shop atelier secret Koke Dama. Koke Dama translates directly as mossball from Japanese. It's a single plant with roots encased in a ball of moss wrapped soil. It looks like a green, fuzzy ball with a single plant sprouting out of the top. She started making Koke Dama when she felt like she was losing herself in her work. The role she played, her identity.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Right now, I'm just processing through the moss. The moss that I get comes in big bags from growers in BC and lot.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Cece was raised as the eldest heir to the name, the firstborn boy in a chinese family. She says it came with an elevated position, expectations, and lots of privilege. And because of that, she played many different roles. Growing up.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: I played all of those roles. I was sort of this eldest born.
[00:01:15] Speaker C: Heir to the name.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: I was an older brother.
I have one younger brother.
I played the role of dutiful son and sort of that grandchild role. I was like a bit of the golden child grandchild for my grandparents on my dad's side.
And later I met somebody after school, and I played the role of husband and father.
But I think the roles that I wish I would have had were daughter and older sister and wife and mother.
And I guess I don't get to go back to have those things, but I'm on a journey to reclaim those things now.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: She quit her job as a software developer to pursue making Koke Dama full time. Then she was forced to separate herself from the roles she had been playing. She had a life changing realization.
Cece came out as a trans woman to her friends and family and then to the world.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: When I finally came out to myself in the shower one morning.
[00:02:57] Speaker C: And having.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: A panic attack while doing it.
[00:03:04] Speaker C: When.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: I look back on those times that didn't make sense.
Those times suddenly all made sense.
If I was never a boy, if I was never a man, if I was never really a father, then all those longings and dreams and wishes make complete sense. Instead of feeling like brokenness or perversion.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Cece created secret Koke dama, the space we're sitting in now on her path to self discovery. She says some of the roles she played has to do with the fact that she was born here in Calgary to parents who immigrated here from Hong Kong. And every day she's still navigating the complexities that come with being a queer child of immigrants.
Children of immigrants, first generation Canadians, second generation immigrants in Canada, almost three in ten children fall into this category, with that number expected to grow quickly over the next decade, the experience of being born in Canada to parents who gave up everything to immigrate here is complex and unique. It changes the way you see and navigate life here in Canada. It's an experience that everyone might not understand.
And as a child of immigrants myself, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to make this series. I'm Karina Zapata, and you're listening to the second Gen. This project is powered by Shaw and made possible with a community podcast initiative on the traditional territories of the Blackfoot Confederacy and the people of the treaty seven region in southern Alberta.
[00:05:08] Speaker D: Um.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: In this episode, we'll focus on the stories of children of immigrants in the LGBTQ two s plus community and what it's like to navigate life authentically with parents whose cultures and beliefs are often opposed to their queer identities. In this episode, Cece and I also connected virtually with Camilla Gomez or Camila, the spanish version of her name, as you'll hear me say in this episode, who left Colombia with her family when she was one year old, and Abhisani, a child of indian immigrant parents. Both are also from Calgary.
[00:05:44] Speaker E: Abi, what was the experience that made you question your sexuality and realize something was different?
[00:05:51] Speaker F: That's a good question, because I actually think about that a lot.
Not in a negative way, but I don't kind of remember a lot from when I was a kid, frankly, but I just knew something was off.
Not in a bad way either, but I don't know. I spent a lot of time with my cousins growing up, like, literally all girl cousins and my twin sister. And I don't know. From a very young age, I just knew that something was just kind of different, but I couldn't pinpoint what it was.
And I swear it's weird to say, but I remember it being around the age of, like, four or five, and I was like.
I couldn't put a name to what this was or what this felt like, but I knew something was, like, just compared to other boys in my age range, I was.
[00:06:43] Speaker E: Something's going, you know, same question to you. What about you? You left Columbia when you were a year old. What was the realization about your sexuality to you?
[00:06:56] Speaker D: I think I discovered pretty early that I identify as a lesbian now, but at the time, I'd say for most of my childhood, I would speak to it as, like, a bisexuality or just a queerness. Right. I wouldn't have had those words back.
[00:07:14] Speaker E: Then.
[00:07:17] Speaker D: But I think it was, for.
[00:07:19] Speaker C: Me.
[00:07:22] Speaker D: An understanding that there was, like, this secret part of me, and it was very wrong. And there was something like, I kind of felt like I was hiding this shameful secret, but I didn't even know how to put it into full words when I was really young. I just knew it wasn't right through the eyes of other people. Right. And so I think I internalized that message really deeply.
And, yeah, I wasn't able to really put it into words until I saw it on screens.
And that's kind of when I was like, oh, this is a real thing. I don't just have this shameful little secret. It kind of felt sort of like a sexual secret, as if it was like a kink or something.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think that's the impression I had when I was really young.
Rather than seeing it as like, oh, I'm going to fall in love. I didn't have that conception.
It's like it was so impossible that it wasn't even an idea I had going to you.
[00:08:43] Speaker E: Cece, we heard a bit of your journey in the beginning of this episode, but I'll ask you the same question, I guess. What was that realization like for you? When did you realize that things were different?
[00:08:55] Speaker C: I think my earliest memory of knowing something was different was when I was, like, eight or nine in elementary school, and I went through this phase where, although assigned male at birth, I refused to wear the little boy's pants at the time, which were, like, dark blue jeans, corduroys that were, like, green and brown, and I wanted to wear the pants that the girls got to wear. They were colorful and cotton.
At that age, I didn't know what that was, only that I didn't want the boys clothes that I had, and I just absolutely refused to wear those pants. And that's sort of been a little bit of a theme through my life, and I didn't come out until age 42.
So I spent a lot of life being drawn to femininity and wanting to express it, but not feeling like I was allowed to, especially in a chinese confucian patriarchal culture, on top of growing up in the. Where there was no representation.
I think I knew one, like, gay guy through school, but like, an asian queer person, it didn't exist. Not visibly and definitely not an asian trans person who is a lesbian and asexual.
There's all these things that in the time, we really didn't have words for. So it's been, like, a lot of my lifetime, sort of experiencing those, like, I am different but I don't think I'm allowed to be this different until, like, orange is the new black liver, and cox on orange is the new black, where her character is a trans character played by a trans woman.
And that really sort of shifted my view. And it's like, this is a person of color, and they're trans, and it's like, oh, this is a thing. I'm not just a weirdo. I'm not perverted.
I'm just a woman.
[00:12:32] Speaker E: Coming out is never easy, but there is always added weight there for children of immigrants because we're in Canada, but we're navigating life with parents and families who are still very much connected to their cultures and their beliefs. And a lot of the time, those beliefs may not be so accepting of the queer community.
So that being said, abby, what fears were you faced with when you were navigating your sexuality with your family, your immigrant family?
[00:13:03] Speaker F: That's also a good question, because it's something, I don't know that you kind of always think about in some regard, not in a way where it's negative or I'm brooding on it. Nowadays, it just makes me wonder about a lot, because the fear based aspect of it, I don't know. I'm full of opinions. But in a lot of asian cultures, the idea of masculinity and femininity is so cemented in such a way that if you any kind of slight deviation from it, it's like an immediate backlash. Like, immediate, like, what are you doing? And I find it kind of ironic in a lot of ways, because.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: In.
[00:13:49] Speaker F: The way that it's universal, it's all, just, to me, low key. Just about bullying anyone who isn't a man or subscribes to an idea of what a familial unit should look like. And because of that, a fear that you always grow up with and think about is, like, okay, I'm not going to be accepted by my family. So therefore, they're going to either kick me out, harass me, not be super nice to me, obviously, but more so. What I find so gross and annoying about it is the way that a lot of particularly south asian cultures, I don't want to generalize, but it's a very common concept to have collective honor, and they're so engrossed in the ideas of what other people are doing or what other people aren't doing. So if it comes to the point, and some people in my community are aware of the fact that I'm gay, that's, quite frankly, why I don't interact with a lot of the indian community in some regards, at least people who I've gone to the temple with and whatnot, because it's not, like, personal insult to me. I can handle it. But then it becomes more of, like, a collective giant. Ooh, that's their family. Like, oh, they're doing that. It's reflective of everyone, and that's, like, a big fear in not wanting people to know.
And because of that, I'm rightfully very selective of who I allow myself to talk to, not just in that regard, but have be involved in your life, because I know enough now to know the difference between people who have good intentions in that sense and people who think of it as, like a kind of collectively shameful, sinful, weird secret. It's just, like, a lot to contend with.
[00:15:43] Speaker E: Going back to you, Cece, is that something that you relate to? That particularly that fear of abandonment, almost, of your family and feeling like if you come out, you'll have to live a life without them or you'll deal with that harassment from your family? Is that something that you relate to?
[00:16:00] Speaker C: Those are things that I definitely relate to.
I was raised to be the eldest boy child heir to the name of my entire extended family, and that's quite an honorable sort of position to have. And even though my father is the youngest of all his brothers, his brothers had all daughters, and it kind of bestowed this huge honor on my dad. And then, so when it was like, how do I come out and be like, you know what? I was never a boy.
It's almost like making out everybody to be like, liars or fooling them into having thought that I was this person that was supposed to sort of carry the honor of the family. And then it was like, if I come out, I'm going to tear that all to the ground.
All of the energy and emotion that they had put into me and their hopes.
I don't know, that honor and respect for my dad. And it was like, I'm just going to throw that in their faces and say sorry.
And that was really hard.
Before I came out to my parents, I had the thought of, are they just going to disown me?
And I thankfully had a lot of support from my close girlfriends, but I was prepared to lose all of my family when I came out.
[00:18:25] Speaker E: And I'll move over to you, Camila, what about you? Is that a fear and pressure that you had to deal with as well in your coming out?
[00:18:35] Speaker D: Know, I think it was maybe a little bit different for me because the same hopes. I didn't have these big hopes put on me in the same way.
I was expected to handle the household, right. I was expected to be successful and strong, but with a man next to me.
[00:18:59] Speaker E: Right.
[00:19:00] Speaker D: I was going to be the woman behind the man.
I was always very opinionated.
I always had a lot to say. I was always trying to cause some sort of revolution or something.
Since I was, you know, a lot of my process of now is almost like feeling like.
I always think of it as little. Camilla was really onto something, and I wish someone would have told her that, but it really felt like I was fighting against the world for everything.
But the thing I think I did really sit with and still kind of resonate with is having the family on my shoulders. Right. And what does that look like? And taking. Raising my sibling and being the therapist, the caregiver, the caretaker of my parents.
My entire life was almost built around my sister jokes. Now, you were jokingly, of course, but you were like the perfect wife. You were kind of built to this. And I was right. And I think, for me, I had tried to come out many times, but it just kind of was always kind of dismissed or kind of taken down. And so I think the fears of community is, like, before I came out or before I tried to be out to my family and my community, the fear was, I think, that abandonment, that I wasn't going to be able to take on the roles of it that I felt now really connected to. And whether good or bad, that's a different conversation. But I felt like I really belonged somewhere and I had a place.
But coming out, I think in that community, like, the latino community, has been brutal. Like, very brutal, because it's now a challenge. Right.
And anything I do, deep down, you want to be with a man, but you just had. For myself, I've had a lot of difficult, traumatic experiences, and I think people really were like, oh, no, it's because this. Right. It's because that happened, which is just funny to me because I'm like, oh, but everything. I had these thoughts way before anything bad in the world happened, but they don't know that. Right. So I think a lot of it has been navigating different layers now that I'm older and I've created my place in community, but people treat me with a different respect if they know that, versus when I was out and I'd go out to a cultural event or something like that. It's still very hard because being with a woman is always seen as less than and being with the man is seen as, like, this is what you actually want. You just have x, y, and z to get to it.
[00:22:37] Speaker E: A common theme that I see here between all of you is really trying to find that balance between holding your ground on your identity and who you are, while also trying to understand the perspectives of your parents and understanding where that pressure comes from that you're all talking about.
And that's a lifelong journey for queer children of immigrants, constantly being in between cultures and in between those expectations on your identity. So, Camila, you touched on this earlier, but now that you're an adult, what is it like for you to find that balance and your belonging in both latino spaces and in queer spaces?
[00:23:16] Speaker D: I think that when it's, like, more of my family, right.
I feel like the journey with that, I have been beyond blessed, because even though the first 20 years of my life, the messaging was, this is wrong.
All the things that could happen, happened and all that.
For some reason, I think for many reasons, actually, especially with my mom, we kind of got to this point where raw, complete destroy the whole concept of everything that's happened. And honestly, I think one of the biggest privileges of my life has been healing this relationship with her and having her get to a point where she's proud that I'm gay.
I'm about to get emotional, honestly, which is just wild, because looking back when I was first coming to terms with this, my parents wouldn't even let me hang out with women, which is very strange for someone who's extremely hyper feminine like I am. And I'm like, okay, well, I hung out with men, too, but I was like, I'm not allowed to have friends that are women. Well, I guess girls at this time, right? But just a huge difference. I really thought I was going to be kicked out. I was already transitioning out of homelessness. It was just a big disaster, a lot of my experiences. And so when I came out, I thought, okay, well, now this is officially going to be kind of the end of this very difficult childhood and upbringing and all the things that came with it.
But it wasn't. I don't know why fully, but I think that the moment I started to deconstruct my truth and my experience, my mom had me so young that I think she started to as well, and she started to think, what is my situation in all of this?
The healing there? So that has really, I think, changed my personal and how I carry myself in the world. And I think that's what made it different, because dishonouring her, I think made everything I did always have this extra layer of pain and hurt and wanting to hide, because even if someone accepted me in the community, I knew my family wasn't going to. Right. And then they didn't at first. But with time, right.
I would say that within my family and then within latino spaces, I have gone through different moments where I feel like I've rejected my community many times for feeling, like, the sexism, the machismo, the homophobia, the consequences to that were huge for me.
The violence I experienced was very brutal. And so when I started coming out to people and it was in latino spaces, it felt like the more I came out, the more the violence was increasing. And I was already in a situation where I felt like that violence was always there, and it didn't matter where in Canada I was going, right. It's like the violence just followed me everywhere I went.
And so it was really painful. But I also came to that point, I think, again, when I was kind of going through this healing with my mom of being like, I am so proud of where I come from. I am so proud of the land that is mine. I'm so proud of the culture. I don't want this to go just because I'm gay. And being gay, to me, felt kind of mixed feelings because when I thought about being gay growing up, I thought of, like, Ellen's generous, and that absolutely was not going to be my experience.
And I basically came to this point where I'm, like, when I'm in queer spaces, I feel like I'm not honoring who I am. And when I'm in latino spaces, I feel like I'm not allowed to honor who I am. And so I created Latina X, LGBTQ plus, and I just decided that I was kind of done with having to choose. And if I wasn't going to feel safe in either, well, then I guess I was going to create a space that I did. And that has been, I think, the beginning of feeling fully authentic in both.
[00:28:10] Speaker E: Abby, as she was speaking, you were nodding a lot. It sounded like something that you kind of related to. Did you want to touch on that?
[00:28:18] Speaker F: When I was listening to you talk? It's just like a mishmash of just my own personal feelings regarding upbringing and the like, because my relationship with my mom certainly got better, or at least her understanding of the whole liking men thing over time because I kind of gave her an ultimatum. I feel like at some point, whether or not I said it out loud, I was more or less like, you either get with the program or you risk me never talking to you again in my life. And I know that neither of us want that, but then it's just difficult because a part of me has to be so understanding in ways that I sometimes feel betray that anger that I feel from initial feelings because I'm like, you don't deserve this kind of understanding. But that logical part of my brain kind of kicks in and I'm like, you know what?
To some degree I kind of do have to understand that you literally came from an entire different part of the world, first of all.
But ideas of culture and what's acceptable or not acceptable are very different. And homophobia is kind of like, universal in a lot of ways. Wasn't always like that, and it's not like that in all places, but it's prevalent.
I don't know if it's just Alberta, but what else is the common denominator? And it's really evident in a lot of queer scenes. And so it's one thing when, like, not able to express that with my family, which at times I'm like, of course, I'm just chilling. I'm not like, oh, I could do this anyways and be like, super feminine, whatever, and I wouldn't care, but I'm just hanging out. But in a queer space where I feel more comfortable to just do, like, literally whatever. It's just od to not be able to do that too. And I just can't help but feel it's reflective of our environment. So I'm like, you just can't win anywhere.
But then you make yourself win because it's a learning process for me too, but over time, just allowing myself to be comfortable no matter what, because I don't deserve to feel uncomfortable.
[00:30:34] Speaker E: Cece, going over to you a similar question. Just how does being trans change the way that you feel? Like you belong in asian spaces, but like we were talking about also in queer spaces, I think.
[00:30:51] Speaker C: In asian spaces.
Even though Cantonese is my first language, English became my primary language.
But I only know the derogatory term in Cantonese for a trans person.
And I once asked my cousin from Hong Kong and I was like, what's the real term for it?
In, I don't know, chinese queer communities? What would that be? What would be the acceptable thing to say? Because it was like if I had to explain my trans experience to somebody in Cantonese, I wouldn't be able to do it.
I wouldn't have the words to be able to do it. And this sort of came up because my uncle from Hong Kong came a couple of years ago, after I had started my transition, and I was like, if I have to say I'm trans in Cantonese, I don't know how to say it without using a slur, right? And I'm like, I'm not going to do that. It's not like reclaiming queer. It's just a slur in Cantonese, at least as far as I understand.
And so that kind of colored my perception of chinese spaces. And it was like, I was very uncomfortable before, sort of early in transition when it was like, I don't know where I was quite sort of in between presenting, I guess you could say where going to the grocery store, like the asian grocery store or going to a chinese restaurant or something like that felt so scary and uncomfortable. I actually ended up just avoiding it. And after my divorce, I just didn't go to a grocery, like an asian grocery store. Even though there was stuff that I wanted, I didn't go.
And I didn't go to chinese restaurants, even though I missed the food.
Um, and it was really scary because chinese culture is very big on being homogeneous. Don't rock the boat.
This is how things are. Don't mess them up. Don't make people have to think differently. So it was just, yeah, in chinese spaces, it was really challenging. And then in queer spaces, it's like queer representation in popular media and stuff. It's very white, where it's like, who cares what your parents think? Just come out. It's your life. Just live it. And it's like, well, you don't understand from many colored cultures, you are not just you. You are you and you are you and your family. You are you and your brother or sister. You are you with your aunts and uncles and grandparents and your parents'friends, those are all you. And so it's not a simple, like, screw them, whatever, because when you say that internally, it's like, but they are part of me. And so if I say screw it, then I am losing a very big piece of me. And especially if you grow up very close with your extended family, getting together almost weekly for dinners and that kind of thing, to reject that, to come out, it's like to reject a piece of you that's so huge, that's been such a big part of your entire life.
And being like, okay, to be me, I have to let go of me. I think we don't see that representation in white queer media.
And so a lot of times it's like, yeah, the colored queer experience is hugely different. I mean, there's obviously things that are similar, but it's really different. And it's like to try to share those experiences. And for people on, I don't know, on online forums or queer people that you meet who. Who are mostly white, and they can sort of try to empathize, but they don't really truly get it. And it's like, oh, I feel like the only one.
And in that way, it's like, I don't know. I feel like I kind of don't belong. And for me, it was just like, if this representation doesn't exist, then and nobody is scrambling to give it to us, I'm just going to have to go and make it.
And so I was like, okay, I'm going to become a model. At age 43, I'm going to become a model, and I'm going to make representation that way.
[00:37:27] Speaker E: That actually goes to my next question, where one thing I see in all of you is that despite all these challenges about being queer that we've been talking about for the last while, is that you're still showing up here. You're speaking publicly on a podcast as your full, authentic selves.
So a question for all of you, and maybe we'll continue with you, Cece, is despite everything that you've been through when navigating your identity as a queer child of immigrants, how did you learn to keep going and keep showing up despite the external factors pushing you back?
[00:38:06] Speaker C: A really big factor is my kids. When I came out, they were, like, super amazing. It wasn't really a thing for them. They were really accepting and really loving, and they just didn't have these preconceived stories of what it means to be trans. I kind of told them my story, and they were like, okay.
And I have so many hopes pinned on my kids and Gen Z sort of the intelligence and awareness with which they approach social issues and things like that. It's just so amazing for a person who grew up in the 80s, I'm Gen X, and it's just like.
And where it's like, I have huge problems convincing people from my generation to try to understand who I am. And I've lost a lot of friends, and I've let go of a lot of friends because they just couldn't really make the journey with me as I went through my social transition and medical transition. Yeah, I went through lots and lots of challenges, but it's like, I want my kids to see me find my authenticity. I want my kids to see me live an abundant life, and it's still a struggle right now, but I want my kids to see that you can be authentic in who you are, and you can have a life and you can be happy. And I want their friends to see it, and I want life to be better for everybody who is watching me.
People who grew up the way I grew up, maybe in the time that I grew up, or people that are growing up now to be able to see.
You can be queer, you can be trans, you can be a person of color, and you can be a model.
You can own a business, you can have friends, and you can have family, and you can have kids. You can have all those things. And it's not going to be easy necessarily, but those things are possible.
[00:41:24] Speaker E: Same question for you, Camila. Despite everything you've been through when navigating your identity, how do you keep going and showing up despite the external factors pushing you back?
[00:41:37] Speaker D: I think when I started living and being honest with my authentic self and coming out while also embracing being Latina at the same time, I had so much.
I guess the opposite. I had nothing to lose, honestly. I was at a point where I didn't have family, really, except for my younger sister, and she's basically my child. So it was kind of a different relationship, and my friendships were gone.
I had just left a long term relationship with a man. So I was really at a point where I was kind of like, have nothing to lose.
I didn't do anything I was supposed to do. I felt like I was like, yeah, it was different, because when you have nothing to lose or you feel like you have nothing to lose, I was able to just kind of be like, okay. And so I'm just going to be out there, and I'm going to do this.
And now it's different because I have so much to lose.
If I don't be authentic to myself, it's like I've actually created a life where I'm not allowed to not be, which is so strange, thinking back on. But if I don't show up for my queer Latinx community, I have people who will ask me what is happening.
I can't not show up. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that it's a good thing to be accountable to a community, especially one that everyone in that community never thought it could even exist.
And so it's like, I think, similar to Cece, I clearly see the point and the things that I have to do. And so now I'm kind of drawn to have to do them, and that's how I keep going because I think about Calgary. There wasn't this right. So if I don't at least try, there isn't this right. I don't see a bunch of people jumping out of to do this because it's hard to do so and to put your face on it.
And I respect that. But then I think that I've built a life where I have now so much that I have to give and give back.
I think that's what gets me to keep going is that I have a community behind me. Now.
[00:44:40] Speaker E: Let's finish off with, you know, what is the thing that makes you keep going and showing up despite all of the external factors pushing you back?
[00:44:52] Speaker F: Wow. Not going to lie, I was like, am I about to start crying? Like listening to Camilla talk?
Because that's just such a beautiful sentiment, honestly.
And those are just even that phrase itself, like beautiful sentiments. That's basically something that I think about a lot.
And I just like the way that you phrase that because maybe that's a better way of trying to vocalize things that I've thought about before, at least because I'm sure amongst all of us there kind of just comes a point where you're like, am I really going to.
I know there's like another side or there's something on the other side of this feeling that it's not going to happen or it's not something I should act on or figure out or even try to make sense of.
And I don't know. Once you're on the other side of it, I don't want to say bitterness, but righteous anger got me to that point where I was like, I don't deserve to feel like this.
I don't want to feel like this. I didn't do anything wrong.
And for the longest time I was literally so convinced that I had done something that warranted these feelings and treatment. And I think it was shortly after I had come out when I was like twelve. But it makes me wonder, if I had come out later, would it have made more of a difference in terms of like, oh, you're more mature. Maybe this is a little bit more realistic, or would it have been worse? Because I'm expected to even like girls more at that point? It's just like anger.
Maybe that's not like the best way of phrasing this, but just like a feeling of refusing to be on the other side of what that used to feel like.
Because I was nervous for a long time when it came to indian people specifically or just like, I have a lot of family who live in Vancouver, and some of the happiest moments I've ever had in my life was going to weddings and being at these large family events and doing all this random, weird stuff together.
Because I recognize that, I don't know, family could exist like that. And it's just nice to know that that isn't something that's like, out of reach. And for a long time I thought it was out of reach or not something that I should or could have or want.
I'm telling on myself, and this isn't like a real observation, but I found that as I've grown up, a lot of people and gotten older don't like me in some regards because I refuse to not.
I'm very opinionated, which can sometimes be a bad thing. But I'm going to say something with my chest because life is so short. There's such short time, and I feel like I already wasted so many formative years and wasting in some regards, just being upset about random stuff, stuff that I can't control, stuff that makes me feel like I need to feel, like, ashamed or like I've done something wrong. Long story short, I have something to say and I'm a human being and I have things and feelings. I just know that I'm important and I have things to say.
And ultimately, with all the reflection of the world that comes from just like depression and thinking about your family and the kind of psychological impacts that these things have on us, I'm just like, it'll take time. It's hard sometimes to be patient with yourself in that regard because it needs to happen all at once.
I just deserve to be happy.
[00:49:08] Speaker A: That was Cece Chow, Camilla go and Abisani sharing their experiences as queer children of immigrant parents.
This project is made possible with a community podcast initiative and powered by Shaw. Special thanks to associate producer Gabrielle Pisca. You can learn more about the community podcast initiative at thepodcastudio, CA.
